Meet James Ward

Kevin 0:50

Alright. Hey friends, welcome back to the Uncommon Freedom Show. Today I am really excited to interview a new friend of mine, uh James Ward. He and I just re met recently. Uh James is passionate about discipling and mentoring and helping others discover a vibrant and adventurous relationship with Jesus. He is the executive director of Beyond, a ministry focusing on mentoring and discipling young adults through adventure-based experiences that help them deepen their faith, discover their unique design, and develop skills for a life of purpose. With 20 plus years of international leadership experience across East Africa, the Middle East, and Central America, James has a long history of using biblical principles and experiential learning to empower marginalized communities and develop emerging leaders. James is also the founder of Ascend Executive Development, a company that equips organizations and executive teams with the alignment, clarity, and leadership capacity needed to build strong cultures and consistently achieve high performance goals. An avid endurance athlete, James competes in ultra marathons and long-distance bike races and has through hiked the Appalachian Trail. He lives in North Georgia with his wife Jennifer and their two children. James, welcome.

James 2:10

Thanks, Kevin. Hey man, just quick disclaimer I am nowhere near as impressive as that bio made me sound. As I was listening to it, I'm sitting there saying, I don't know if all the I guess that's true, but I don't know. I want to meet that guy, right? Yeah, yeah. I don't know if that's me.

Kevin 2:24

Yeah, I I think that I think our bios all make us look uh better than we are. But I can say that after having met you and spent the uh uh the weekend at that retreat with you, I I like it's all legit. Um you're you're one of those people that I feel like uh there's that uh modello beer commercial or whatever, whatever Doseckies, the the world's most interesting man. Um, and after meeting you, I'm like, okay, James is one of those guys that fits in that category.

James 2:49

So well, I appreciate that, man. I'll I'll I'll I'll accept that. I appreciate it.

Kevin 2:54

Very good, very good. Well, hey, uh, why don't we get started? Just tell us a little bit about where you grew up, your family life, and kind of just how you got into adulthood.

James 3:04

Yeah, man. So I uh for the most part, I grew up in North Georgia, which is where I live now, just a little north of Atlanta, um, raised by awesome parents, uh, had great little sister, um, and just lived kind of a I consider kind of an average suburban life, uh in in a you know, just great little neighborhood, grew up riding dirt bikes, shooting guns, um, you know, getting into trouble. And uh, and when I was, I was just probably just out of high school, um, me and a buddy decided that we wanted to kind of break off and do this. Everybody else was planning their trips to go to Cancun or some some uh senior trip, and we decided that we wanted to go do something a little different. And so we uh planned and and coordinated everything and um took off to uh through hike the Appalachian Trail, which is this huge very long footpath, goes from Maine all the way to Georgia. Um, and I would say that that decision and that point is where my life began to diverge from my peers. And so I didn't go straight into college. I went out and spent literally five and a half months in the woods with a backpack on my back. And uh I look back on that and I kind of see that as my rite of passage into becoming a man and really having to learn how to make decisions and live on my own and get up in the morning when I didn't feel like getting up and putting a pack on and wet boots and hiking. Uh, you know, just it was just one of those experiences that changed the trajectory of my life. And so um coming out of that, I uh went, did end up going to school um and worked at a variety of different, just kind of everything from like working at a golf course to youth camps to uh all sorts of different things until I finally landed um in what I believe where God was leading at the time, which was um getting involved in full-time ministry. And since then, I've done a variety of different things, had the opportunity to work literally all over the world in a variety of different environments, uh, both some of the poorest, most desperate communities in the world, uh, war-torn communities, a variety of different places, and have just been able to see and experience a lot because of that and see God at work and him moving and um really kind of develop this passion that I have for engaging people in a bigger, more exciting story that is that comes with following Christ.

Kevin 5:48

Awesome. I and how did you and your wife Jennifer meet?

James 5:52

Oh man, so we actually met at a youth camp um where where we both worked. Uh, we met there, uh man, I guess it's probably been almost like 25 years ago now. Um, so we met at a youth camp. Uh she had no interest in me, and I was very interested in her. Uh, and eventually I just wore her down until she said, Okay, I'll go, I'll go out with you. And then uh yeah, we got married. We just celebrated 22 years, uh, November 1st. And two kids. Uh Mara, our daughter, is 15. Cam, our son is 12. And then we have a bonus daughter who came to live with us um when she was kind of finishing high school, and uh she's she's in Birmingham now, a nurse, and is just doing is killing it.

Kevin 6:38

So awesome. And uh before we get into uh really the crux of your ministry beyond, uh tell us about the hobby. I mean, I actually met your wife first. So we were at uh we met you guys at a retreat, a chairman's retreat with the ministry called Lighthouse Uh Family Retreats, who your wife works for, and uh met your wife first, super friendly, and she starts telling me about this really fun hobby that the two of you have. Uh you're involved in the tactical games. Tell us about that.

Family And Tactical Games Community

James 7:09

Yeah, yeah, man. So we got uh we have a couple close friends that got involved in this, and it's become kind of a passion of ours. Um, it's it's this combination of shooting, uh, competitive shooting and functional fitness. So if you kind of if like if crossfit and shooting competition were to come together, um, that would be the tactical games. And so it's uh it's pistol, rifle shooting, um, but you're you're performing all of your shooting with an elevated heart rate, having done some sort of hard work. And it's all it's all functional rope climbs, sandbags, sled poles, all that kind of stuff, uh, and combining that with shooting. And so we've both uh we've both been competing in that. I guess I've done it the last two years. She had her first one last year, and then uh literally like two nights ago, we were on the website picking out which ones we're gonna do this year.

Kevin 8:09

Awesome. Yeah, no, it sounds fun. I mean, it sounds like a very practical uh and realistic uh duplication of a tactical environment because you know so much training is done in a very sterile environment. You know, you're um it's dry, you know, you've got a calm heart rate, and you know, you're shooting from a you know a rested position or something like that. And it's not a uh it's not a realistic tactical scenario. So I love that and uh definitely got me uh interested in looking into it as well. So very cool.

James 8:40

You would you would love it. And I honestly, I think the thing we like most about it is the community, just the people that you know. At first I was a little nervous thinking about, I mean, that's a you know, there's a couple hundred people at one of these events. That's a lot of guns, a lot of people running around with with firearms, or an accidental discharge. Yeah, exactly. But man, that's such it's just an incredible community. The people are awesome. Um, the folks that run it do a pretty, pretty incredible job keeping everything safe and uh above board. So it's it's been it's been a great experience for us. It's been really fun for us to do that together and be able to compete together.

Kevin 9:13

Yeah, very cool. I you're like your wife is not the type of person I would expect. You know, like I I I mean, she seems perfectly suited for her role at Lighthouse. And then she starts talking about, oh, yeah, I've been doing all this, you know, strength training and working on the tactical games and I love to shoot. And I was like, oh, like she completely broke that mold.

James 9:31

So she's she's a sleeper in that way, man. And and truth be told, she will outshoot me any day of the week. I mean, she is she is she's put a lot of time, she grew up shooting, put a lot of time, she puts a lot of time and energy into it, and she's a she's a pretty, pretty, pretty good shot. It's it's really fun to watch.

Kevin 9:47

That's awesome. That's awesome. All right, now let's talk about discipling and mentoring. Okay. Um it just how did that passion come upon you? And what are some of the things that drive you uh to disciple and mentor young people and specifically young men?

Why Beyond Exists

James 10:03

So I would say it's it kind of two different things in my life converged at at a similar time. Uh the first one was I mentioned we have a bonus daughter. So uh Annie is her name, and Annie came to live with us. So we went when Annie joined our family, uh, my oldest child was like nine. And then Annie comes in and she is like 17. And all of a sudden, I've got we've got like a 17-year-old under our roof, and I have no idea what to do or how to, how to, you know, and we're not we're not really her parents, but she was living with us and we were helping her through a really difficult season. And uh, and so I began to just kind of learn and engage with her and her friends, and just got a real honest view into what life is like for them and the struggles that they have and the difficulty of being a young adult in today's world. Uh, while that that was going on, and I was kind of getting a real intimate view of what all that looked like. And along the same times, I was running an organization where we had a lot of young adults that were working for us. And and I was continually frustrated with them. Um, and I just couldn't figure out why. And there were these little things, it's like, man, you know, you got to show up on time. Why aren't you showing up on time? And, you know, just because you're done with one task doesn't mean you get to go home for the day. When you're done with what, why don't you come and ask somebody else what you can help them with? And so I found I found myself frustrated on one set on one hand and then heartbroken on the other, of just seeing how difficult life was or is for Annie and her friends. And and I think God used that to really kind of break and open my heart to the unique challenges. And honestly, for me personally, some of the some of the misconceptions that I had about this younger generation. And um, and so rather than rather than sit back and complain about it, uh, me and two other guys decided that, you know, I think, I think we, I think we could help. Um, and I I think we could do something about about this. And so we we created Beyond. And really what we do at Beyond is we create experiences that get young adults outside of their comfort zone. Uh so with with my background and what I love to do, it's all it's all outdoors stuff. So we take, we'll take backpacking, rock climbing, we'll do orienteering core, a variety of different challenges where we get them outside, uh, get them in a group where they have to, where they have to work together and they have to, they experience um challenge and pressure in a somewhat controlled environment. Uh, and then coming out of those experiences, we're able to mentor and coach them and continue to pour into and develop them and help them to apply the lessons that they've learned to help them apply, apply biblical truth to their life in a way that is sticky, right? That isn't just kind of a camp high experience, but something that really uh really sticks with them and gives them some tracks to run on as they navigate these both challenging but also really, really important years of their life.

Kevin 14:10

I I want to talk about the logistics and details of Beyond, but when you talk about some of the frustrations with the current generation, two thoughts come to mind. Um, and these are things that I've heard other people talk about. Number one is that you get what you tolerate. And so when we look at the current generation, and especially, you know, kids or people that we interact with on a regular basis, uh, when we're frustrated, I think we have to look at ourselves and say, huh, I I'm frustrated, but have I tolerated this behavior? Uh and then the other thing is that people will either rise or lower themselves to your expectations. And I think as a culture, we've completely lowered our expectations for youth. Uh, you know, one of the things that I'm aware of is that the concept of adolescents or teenagers has really only existed for about a hundred years. Uh, you know, prior to that, when kids were out 14 years old, you know, they were considered adults. Uh, they were getting married. And I'm not advocating, you know, uh abuse of children or anything like that. I understand that we do live in a different society now, but the reality is our kids were getting married and had a tremendous amount of responsibility at a much younger age. Their survival was based on whether or not they were productive or not. Uh, you know, young men had a sexual outlet in the form of a wife that kept them or, you know, that would would help prevent them from being tempted to all the many other sexual temptations that exist in our modern world. And it, you know, this concept of, you know, we just expect kids to be lazy and bums, you know, until they're, I don't know, 25, 30 years old, you know, delayed adolescence, failure to launch is kind of an expectation in today's world. And I think what you're talking about, what you've created with Beyond, it's one of the reasons I love it, even though I've just learned about it recently, is that you're creating a higher expectation. Um, talk about logistically, like how long are kids with Beyond? Um, are they raising money for it? Does it cost? Do they pay? How does that work?

Program Structure And Standards

James 16:17

Yeah, yeah. All great questions. So um generally, someone will a class, if you will, a cohort of students will be with us anywhere from four to six months. And so on the front end of that time, we will do an experience. Those are usually anywhere from anywhere from three to five days. Um, and then following that, there's that season of mentoring that kind of takes us through that that three to four month period of time. Um and those uh those students will stay in their cohort for that whole time. Now, they're not, it's not a residential program, so they are they're they're at school, they're working, they're doing whatever they do in everyday life normally. Um, the difference is they've got a community and a mentor to walk alongside of them while they're living that life out. And and we do that intentionally. You know, one of the things that that I've seen happen in different environments is you create a false reality for a student and they learn to thrive in that reality. Um, but then when they when they get out of that reality and they get into what we would call the real world, um, man, it's it's not as friendly. And things are harder and it's not sterile, and there's not rounded edges, there's hard edges, and it's way more difficult to navigate. And so we want to keep those young adults in those environments that that they live in and are going to be in, um, and help equip them to function in an excellent way in those environments. Um, so yeah, students, students generally pay. Um, either they pay or their parents pay. Uh, we have scholarship funding for students that have happen to not be able to make the financial investment. Um, to date, we haven't had to turn anybody away for that reason, which is which is awesome. I pray that it always is that way. Uh, but it is important to us that those students are invested into the program. And so, kind of to your point with those standards, right? We we have pretty high standards. It's you show up on time to every meeting, you're prepared, um, you do the homework. Um, and if you don't, then it's gonna be a it's gonna be a it's gonna be a real conversation. And you're going to need to explain yourself, not just not just to me or not just one of our instructors, but to your to your cohort, to your to your community as to why you're not prepared or why you're late. Uh, and we hold we hold a pretty high standard in those areas, and it's it's awesome to see these young men and women rise to that standard.

Kevin 19:04

And just to clarify, so physically or geographically, these kids could be all over the country or potentially even all over the world.

James 19:11

Yeah, we don't, we haven't had any international students yet, but man, I love that idea. Okay. Um, but yeah, they're they're from all over the country. So they come together in person for the experience, and then we do the mentoring either via Zoom or if a cohort is like we've got a church part, a couple church partners we work with where um they're all the students are located in the same town. In those environments, of course, we want them to meet together and we'll do all of that one-on-one. But uh, I'm sorry, face to face. But if not, we'll do it. We'll do it talking how we are today over Zoom or or some other platform.

Kevin 19:51

Very cool. All right, let's talk about resilience. I know that's something you're passionate about. Um, why is it important to develop and uh based on your experience and just working with young young people, uh, is it something that they're born with or is it something that can be developed?

Resilience: Trained Not Born

James 20:05

So I'm I'm passionate about it because by nature, um, I am not a resilient person. And if um I tell people all the time, if you were to look, right, if there was a movie of the first uh, you know, 20 years of my life, um, what you would see is man, there's a there's a well-intentioned guy that doesn't like to be uncomfortable. And when things get hard, I'm looking for the eject button or I'm looking for I'm looking for an escape out. Whether it's relationally, uh, physically, emotionally, whatever, I just, I just, I started things and then when they got hard, I would quit them. And when I was in my early 20s, um, I had God was so great to me to bring a group of men into my life who just wouldn't just wouldn't tolerate that. And they and they called me out and called me up to something greater. And over the course of the last, you know, 10, 15 years, or the 10 or 15 years following that, I really began to realize that I I can be resilient, and it is something that can be developed and grown. Um, and so I I did it. Uh, I mean, I I did it through uh hard work, through training, uh physically, you know, kind of my my journey to get to resilience was through through physical efforts and doing things, setting big goals, failing many times, uh, and then going back and trying again and trying again and putting in those reps and just not giving up. Uh, and what I found is that as I was able to develop that discipline and develop that resilience in in a physical world, whether it would be racing or some sort of endurance effort, whatever, uh, that it translated over directly into my work, my parenting, uh, my other relationships. Uh, and I just have become a huge, huge advocate for for resilience. And, you know, I think I think people look at this next generation coming up, and one of the big critiques we hear all the time is, well, they're weak, or you know, they don't have resilience, or they and I, you know, the reality is uh I don't I don't know that they're weak. I just we live in an insane world and they've not been trained. And if we if we train and we teach and we mentor, um I I do believe, I've seen it, I know, that resilience can be developed. And as I think about where we're going culturally and the problems that a 20-year-old will navigate when they're in their 40s, the what culture will likely look like by that point, um, the narratives that they're going to deal with throughout their life, the the how just the attack on truth and biblical values, they're they're going to need to be resilient if they're going to be effective disciples of Christ. And so that that's why I'm so passionate about it is I've I've I've been able to develop it in myself, both through faith and through hard work and and just grinding. Um, and and I see young adults being able to develop it as well when they're with some coaching and some encouragement and some um and some tools to help them do that.

Kevin 24:06

When you're working with the young adults that are coming to beyond, what percentage would you say are coming to you with a at least an adequate level of resilience already developed versus how many you can tell they were really coddled and uh sheltered and babied and rescued? Uh and you're like, oh man, we got some work to do.

James 24:31

Yeah, that's a that's a that's a great question. Our our sample size admitted or our sample of students, admittedly, uh, we appeal to this, our program appeals more to the students that that want it and are hungry for it and that have um that have a more of an appetite for it. So I would say our experience probably isn't a great representation of the demographic in general. Yeah. Um, but certainly, I mean, certainly we have students in just about every cohort that have um that are coming and they have a long way to go, right? We get them, we get them out into the backcountry, and it's time to uh it's time to really dig deep and push. And they they don't know where to go. They don't they don't they don't have they don't have any experience um digging deep. They don't they don't know they don't know what to pull from. And and so certainly we we see those students in just about in every every cohort.

Microdosing Adversity And Elective Suffering

Kevin 25:39

I I think the reality is we all have a long way to go, right? You you're you're pretty cocky to think I've arrived when it comes to resilience. But you know, you talked about that group of men that kind of forced you to develop it. Uh post-2020, I heard an interview with a guy who was a uh a law enforcement officer up in the state of Washington. I think he got fired for um you know speaking his mind. Uh and but I heard him use this phrase of microdosing adversity. And it's something that I have applied to my life ever since I heard it because it really resonated with me. Because, you know, as humans, we were we're attracted towards comfort. You know, even this morning, um, after I cold plunged in my 39-degree uh uh cold plunge tub, uh I took my daughter to school and we're having a one of those rare rainy days in the Phoenix, Arizona area that makes me uh unfortunately feel like I'm back in the north northwest, which I don't care for, the rainy gray skies. Um, and I turned my heated truck seats on as like, oh, as like I'm being a wussy right now. And on the one hand, it's like I've worked hard. I grew up in Cleveland, Ohio. I've had to, you know, I've had to snow blow and shovel just to get my car out of the driveway. I've had to scrape ice and snow off my car and gotten into freezing cold cars. And you kind of get to this point where you're like, I've earned it. I deserve, you know, heated seats and a heated steering wheel and things like that. But then at this the flip side, I'm like, how soft do I want to become? And I'm not, you know, I'm not trying to condemn anyone for enjoying some of the finer things in life, but it's it's just this reminder. One of the things I learned from this guy is, you know, every single day do something to microdose adversity. You know, so I cold plunge three days a week. Um, and there's other things that I do. Uh, you know, it might be as simple as, you know, for those of us going into winter, you go for a walk, maybe don't bundle up as much as you would. Um, and like with my kids, I actually don't allow my kids to use heated seats and and air conditioned seats in my car. I'm like, nope. I was in my 30s or 40s before I could afford that. And I don't want you to be accustomed to this. I don't let them and some people may think, man, you're a jerk of a dad. But you know what? The reality is in most of the world, like heated seats are like that's not what kids want. They just want a full belly once a day, much less two or three times a day. And so I think that if as a culture we can just start to deny ourselves some of the comforts and privileges that the modern world gives us, um, and and just to be intentional about that microdosing adversity, um, it will help create more uh resilience in us and our kids, right? Because the truth is it's very it's very unlikely we're gonna have resilient kids if we don't have resilient parents, right?

James 28:41

Yeah. And I just Kevin, I totally agree with that. The term that we use at at Beyond is this idea of elective suffering. And it's this idea that like we can we choose to put ourselves in environments that are hard and that hurt and they're where they're suffering, and we train that way because eventually life is gonna deal more suffering to us than we want. And it's best for you if the first time you deal with a suffer with like real legitimate suffering isn't in an environment where you don't have an option. Um, it's best to train in these environments where you're choosing the hard uh so that you can develop those muscles and those reps to be able to emotionally, spiritually, uh, physically to withstand those seasons. And I just, you know, to your point, I mean, man, I've spent months and years of my career working in places around the world where life is hard every single day. And any comfort that you have, you have to. I mean, it's it's a grind, it's a fight for for that comfort. And we live, we live in a culture, we live in an environment where for most of us that's that's just not the case. And we kind of have to go force some suffering, we have to go force some adversary, adversity and create these experiences and environments, cold plunging, long runs in the cold, um, whatever, whatever they are, so that we can we can train ourselves to be able to withstand the real suffering when it when it comes.

The Just One Mile Story

Kevin 30:40

Yeah, it's a it's a first world problem and a first world privilege to have to intentionally bring suffering into our life. Um and and I'm reminded of that, that, that cycle, the saying that talks about um hard times make strong men, strong men make good times, good times make weak men, and weak men make hard times. So uh the goal is to avoid that weak men and hard times, and we have to be intentional about creating that suffering um and microdosing adversity to do that. Um talk about the just one mile documentary.

Faith, Platform, And Calling

James 31:19

Oh, okay. Well, this is yeah, great. Uh so uh a couple years ago, um, a good buddy of mine uh had signed up for this race. And it's a uh it's a it's called it's called the mid-state mile. It's a last man standing race, which means when you start the race, it goes on until no one's left. Like people quit, they don't make the cut, and over the course of the race, the field just dwindles and dwindles down until there's two people left, and then it's then it's head to head. And so uh a buddy of mine is a filmmaker, awesome, super talented filmmaker. And I was telling him about this race, and he was like, Man, I'd I'd like to film that. I'd like to do that. Sounds really interesting. And my buddy Chad is is just he's an awesome guy, he's a character, former Navy SEAL, just you know, big beard, just one of those hard, hard dudes. Uh, and so Chad had won it the year before, he was signing back up for it, and uh asked me if I would if I wanted to run it as well, and I decided that that I would. And then my buddy got involved, who's the filmmaker, and it turned into this documentary. And originally the documentary was about Chad, and and that's really who the film is about. But as we got into filming, and Chad and I trained together, and we uh it kind of became this this this storyline of you've got hard, battle-tested Navy SEAL, right, with all of his kind of mentality, and then you've got James, father, you know, husband, average dude who's out here. Yeah, yeah, like just trying to do something hard and get better at life. And and so the the documentary, um the filming of it just you know built up and and it was getting some some good uh some good press, even even before it was, even before the race, even before it was released. And race day comes, and we start. So the the way the loop is set up, it's a one-mile loop with about 360 feet of elevation gain every mile. So it's it's a very it is not a flat track, it's trail, and you're going up the side of a mountain, up on the ridge, back down the other side, and you just you have 20 minutes to complete a loop and it just goes on until nobody's left. I think field started, it was it was 110, 115 people, something like that, showed up to to do the race. And uh it's it's a longer story than than I'll get into today. People people can can go watch the film if they want to, but um, at a about three hours in, I think is when it was, um, I got some terrible news. I was running, feeling good. Um, I got some terrible news that my father had passed away. And um, and like, dude, all this is it's on camera. So like I come running around the bend, running into the the corral where all the racers are, where you just kind of refuel, get some food, get some water, and get back out on the course. And I come around the corner, I see my wife, Jen, kind of as far out as she as close to me as she could get and still be in the corral, and I could see the look on her face that something's something's not okay. And uh, I pull in and and my sweet bride had to tell me this terrible news. Um and man, it just I mean, it just it just wrecked me. Wow. And I um I have just the way the race is set up, it's like, and and I I don't even like honestly, I don't even know, I don't really remember this, except it was on film, so it's it's in the documentary and you can see it. But um I I have a few minutes to like figure out what I'm gonna do and how to respond. And as I'm sitting there trying to like process all this, I hear the I hear the bell go off that is the one minute warning until the next loop starts. And I I get, I mean, clearly I made the decision. Um, I don't I don't remember all the factors that went into it, but I got up and I walked to the line and I ran. And I ran that next loop. I had enough clarity of mind to realize that I had 20 minutes to run the loop, but if I if I could run it in eight minutes, seven minutes, if I could run it really fast, I'd have more time to kind of figure out. Now, there's some backstory to this and my dad, and what his his encouragement to me personally to run this race. And so um there's a reason why I didn't just jump in the truck and go home and and and be with my family. Uh but long story short, that documentary kind of it caught all of that, and it and that becomes a big part of the storyline of the film. And you know, as as we talk about resilience, um, for me, as I look back on my life, that was one of those days where the rug got pulled out from under me. And um, and suffering was kind of forced onto me in a way that wasn't of my choosing, certainly. And it is um it is one of those defining moments in my life as I look back that um I made decisions and I handled things the way that I did, largely because of the training and the experiences that I had up into that day. And I didn't even, it's not like I even did everything right. Like even when I look back today, it's like I don't know that was the best thing to keep running for hours and hours and hours when my children are at home and they don't even know that their grandfathers passed away. Like I I quit, but um, but I I had set a standard for myself and I knew my I know my I knew my dad and I know what um I know what he would want me to do beyond a shadow of a doubt. I know that. And so I made that decision to keep running. And literally, man, I I I ran until I just could not run anymore. I mean, there's there's some graphic footage in that in that documentary of me stumbling and puking and just having a fit out there uh just because it was it I just pushed my body uh so hard, given everything that went on that day. It was like this, you know, emotional, mental, spiritual battle that I was fighting out there on that course. And um, and as I as I look back on that season, I realize today um that documentary has has done incredibly well. It's reached a lot of people. Um, the story of my dad's faith is embedded in that documentary, the story of my faith and and Jennifer, my wife's just steadfastness and strength throughout that. That's all there, right? And and I have no concept of the hundreds and thousands or millions of people that have seen that. I'll get I'll get random emails still today from people that just say, Hey man, I saw that documentary. I just just want you to know I was really inspired by your faith, or I was really inspired by your dad's story. And it's one of those examples where um I had no idea what hung in the balance at the time. I was just doing what I knew to be the right, uh, I don't even know that I would say knew what I believed to be the right thing to do in the moment. And God has used that to open up so many doors for ministry and opportunities that I know my dad would just be, he would just be stoked out of his mind about about that. And um, and so I love I love telling that story because it's one of these examples of the easy thing to do would have been, and and maybe the right thing. I'm not, I'm not uh like I said, I still have attention about it, right? But the easy thing to do would have been to say, hey man, I'm out. This this is this is too much, and um, and I'm needed somewhere else, and so I'm out. And it would have been a different story that had I had done that. And um, and the way God used the um that the way God has used and continues to use that documentary is has been pretty pretty incredible.

Kevin 40:15

Awesome. Well, I'll put a link to the documentary in the show notes. Um, and you know, I I think there's there's so many experiences in life where it's easy to, you know, Monday morning quarterback it, um, but there's there's not necessarily a right or a wrong in a scenario like that. But it's like, did you make the best decision that you could with the information that you had with where you were emotionally at the time? The other thing is I'm reminded of a saying, you know, when the crap hits the fan, we don't rise to the level of our training, we fall to the level of our systems, or you could also replace that with we fall to the level of our habits.

James 40:50

Yeah.

Kevin 40:51

And so what I think you did was you just developed this habit of just persevering, right? Being resilient. And you were hit with this horrible tragedy, tragic news, and it was like, I don't have a lot of time to decide, but what would my dad want? And uh just respond accordingly. And sure, you can nitpick it after the fact, it's easy to do. Uh, but uh man, mad respect. I can't wait to watch the movie. I won't have you ruin it. Um, and uh, I know your buddy Chad was also on Joe Rogan. Uh, I just finished up that podcast uh yesterday. No, actually, I have like five minutes left, but okay, um, I will also put that link because it's just another story of how people's journeys um and their faith. I mean, when I was listening to this podcast, I'm like, wow, what a platform, right? For Chad to be sharing his testimony and faith on the Joe Rogan show. There's pretty much not a bigger platform in the world today. So uh pretty amazing.

Becoming Uncommon And Next Steps

James 41:50

It's it's it is, man. It's it's amazing. It's been uh it's it's been a wild, it's just been a wild ride uh to see how God has used that film. And uh, I mean, Chad's done a ton of stuff, but um just a variety of things. Again, it's that it's that being faithful to the opportunities that God has put in front of us, choosing not to play it safe, choosing not to see comfort, uh, many times choosing the harder path. And man, the adventure that comes in that when we are following him is just it's just amazing. I I would have never chosen to be in some of the environments that I've been able to be in, but in hindsight, man, I I wouldn't trade those experiences for the world. And and it was it was a faithful following of of God's leading that that opened those doors.

Kevin 42:45

Awesome. Awesome. Well, um, as we kind of land the plane here, you know, one of the concepts is being an uncommon man. You know, what's common in manhood today is I would say, generally speaking, very negative. But I think what God intended for masculinity um is very positive. Any society that has a thriving biblical masculinity in its culture is going to thrive. Um, and so as as we kind of wrap things up here, what advice do you have for either men who are mature and they're trying to figure out how they can mentor young men, this next generation, to help them become uncommon, or maybe for young men who are like they have this, they feel the the call to be uncommon, but they're trying to figure out how do they get there. Maybe you know their their father is not a good role model, or maybe he's passed away or something like that. Um, but what final advice do you have for us and them?

James 43:45

So I think the I think the two the two things that come to mind, um one is there is uh there's this there's this passage in uh Galatians chapter one verse 10. And the in in that scripture, Paul asks the question, he says, Am I trying to win the approval of people or God? And one of the things that that I have just been continually challenged with is this idea of um who's who whose approval am I working towards? Um and who am I what what am I fearing? And is my is my desire for approval, is the things that I'm afraid of, um, is it which direction is that leading me? Am I am I demonstrating a fear of man, um, a desire for comfort, um, and approval, or am I seeking after am I seeking after God? And and am I is is my audience one? And um, and so I I just I just feel strongly for men uh as I sit back and watch that it just feels like for a lot of us, um we're seeking the approval of man or we're fearing man, and that's motivating a lot of a lot of what we do or. don't do. And so that that would be one thing. The other thing that comes to mind is is the community and the people that you surround yourself with. Right. I've I've got a um a guy that has been influential in my life and and he's I've he's said many times um that you are you are probably the average of the five people you spend the most time with.

Kevin 45:32

Amen.

James 45:33

And so you think about that and you if you want to be uncommon, if that's a desire, if that's a passion that God has put within you and you're surrounded by common men that are doing what everybody else is doing on the same trajectory, the same path, you're probably the average of them. And that's not going to get you there. And so finding those people if you're a young adult finding those men that are a season in life ahead that are uncommon and be bold man. Step up ask them hey teach me let me hang out with you let me spend a day with you be bold be assertive and and find those men surround yourself with those men. And I honestly I feel like I feel like that's half the battle is like when you are surrounded by those guys um it's just it becomes who you are and you you function in that ecosystem. And it's uh it's to me that has been probably one of the most important things um and one of the things that we encourage our our students in all the time.

Kevin 46:47

That's so good. I mean I could agree more. James I can you tell people how can they get more information about Beyond uh I don't know if uh beyond is on social media at all how can they follow them uh follow beyond on social and also how can people follow you?

James 47:03

Yeah excellent yeah um yeah beyond is uh our website is beyondexperience.co um we're on Instagram uh we're on Facebook we might be on a couple others YouTube we're getting ready to launch a podcast soon um and so we're on uh we're on several socials and then uh for me um my name I think my handle on Instagram is JamesWard7 underscore seven nine um and then on Facebook you know where normal normal places but um easy way to find people so yeah yeah but specifically for for beyond um man go check if you have a young adult or you know a young adult I just encourage you to go check out the website reach out to us we'd love the opportunity to to talk to you and and see if there's a a way that we can serve.

Kevin 47:53

Awesome. You know I'm really excited. I mean I'm thrilled when you told me about what you're doing. I just absolutely love it. I think there's a huge need for it. Uh it's all definitely certainly be having the conversation with my young men uh and uh that are you know in my family as well as anyone else I meet. I think it's just you're you're filling a huge void uh that is desperately needed. And uh just great to meet you. Thank you so much for your time and uh just again uh keep doing what you're doing man I really appreciate it.

James 48:23

Thanks Kevin. Hey man I I love what you guys are doing and appreciate you uh have having me on I really do all right man hey friends hope you enjoyed this show we'll catch you next time all right brother all done all right