Exploring Personal Growth and Mentorship with Jon Sommer

Speaker 1: 0:05

Hey friends, coming up next is an interview with John Summer. John Summer is a father of Jesus, husband to Laura of 19 years and dad to four kids. John leads Reclaim Ministries as the National Director of Ministry. He also owns Redentity Consulting, which focuses on assessment based career guidance, team alignment and leadership training and development. John's passion is fighting for the hearts of people, particularly men and business leaders. When he's not working in ministry or business, he's playing in the dirt somehow, whether planting gardens, trees, working heavy equipment, or out hiking or hunting, he's getting his hands dirty. Up next, my interview with John. All right, john, how you doing my friends? Great to see you. I'm well, I'm well, it's good to be with you. Kevin, what is the temperature in Northeast Ohio today?

Speaker 2: 1:00

It's Arizona man, it's rainy and about 41 degrees. It sound about right.

Speaker 1: 1:06

It reminds me of why I moved out here, my friend.

Speaker 2: 1:09

Well, it's going to get better tomorrow because it's going to go partly sunny to a high of 31.

Speaker 1: 1:14

Oh, wonderful, wonderful. Well, hey it literally could be 75 degrees in three days right.

Speaker 2: 1:20

That's exactly right this time of year. Yeah, it's pretty crazy.

Speaker 1: 1:24

Awesome. Well, hey everyone. I'm really excited to be interviewing a longtime friend of mine, john Summer. We went to high school together for two years and when I look back it's hard for me to believe that I only spent two years with you and Brian and Bruce and Chris and that group of guys. I feel like one of the benefits of a small school is we just gelled. We were really like brothers and sisters. It was a lot of fun, huh.

Speaker 2: 1:49

Yeah, it was a lot of fun. I say we've probably gotten a little bit of trouble too, but we made some memories and we're still making them today, which is fun Absolutely.

Speaker 1: 1:56

Yeah, and so I'm excited. You know, you and I connected when we shortly after we moved to Arizona. I don't even remember exactly how it happened, but somehow we reconnected. You were coming out, I think, doing some ministry out here in Phoenix, and we got together, hung out for a little bit and just really I mean because we really had lost touch after high school and I'm trying to remember, were you at the 15-year high school reunion that we did?

Speaker 2: 2:23

I was. I was and I don't even think I knew that you had married Becca, like we were that far out of touch, that's right, and you and Becca were there, and so we connected a little bit. And then we reconnected, if I remember, right at just one of the guys' gatherings, and then I had some business out in Phoenix later that year and I just looked you up and I just said, hey, can I see you? I just swung by and we had an awesome time. I think that was the last time I smoked a cigar. Oh, really yeah.

Speaker 1: 2:56

Well, I'm glad I could be a bad influence on you. I could deal with it. Yeah, I know.

Speaker 2: 3:01

It was awesome. Building definitely not corrupting. Yeah, it was awesome.

Speaker 1: 3:05

No, it was cool. I remember hanging out with you then and just really realizing we're very much kindred spirits. For the last couple of years you and I have been getting together once a month and, as I talk about in the book Run With Lions, definitely identified very quickly that you're one of those lions that I want to give permission to speak into my life and I know you've given me permission to speak into your life. I feel like it's very much mutual mentorship. We're both passionate about abundance and just making the world a better place, but your focus really is especially on men and rebuilding the hearts of men. Do you want to share a little bit real quick about reclaim and what you do in that role?

Speaker 2: 3:54

Yeah, absolutely so. Reclaim is a national ministry, probably going to go internationally before long. But what we do is we have in fight for the hearts of men, and what I mean by that is we have a vision. We want to see all men fully alive, but our mission is to actually go where men are, so we don't wait for them to come us and we guide them into the wild so that they can discover the truth about God's heart and their own. And we say, guide them into the wild. That has a literal component. I mean there's times we literally take eyes in the wild, but what we really mean is we guide men into the wild places of their own heart.

Speaker 2: 4:32

You know, the Bible says that the heart of a man is deep waters. Who can know it? Well, we go down for it, and so this has been a mission that I've been part of for the last decade, and there's a lot more to reclaim. But it's been pretty wild how God has opened up doors all over the country, and he's actually starting to open up the doors all over the world as well, in many different nations. And so we're on a roller coaster fight for the hearts of men through a gospel, a biblical focus.

Speaker 1: 5:03

Yeah, it's great, and I can personally attest to just the fact that you're doing some awesome work. You invited me to join you and a group of guys for you call it intensive. Is that what I joined you for?

Speaker 2: 5:16

Yeah, when we do, when we have a several day get together, it's an intensive or beyond depending on the level. But you joined us for a full tilt man, full tilt, intensive, four days and just just hit it hard, really digging in into truth, for the heart of a man.

Speaker 1: 5:30

Yeah, it was a great experience. So I definitely encourage anyone who is any man who's looking to I don't really just become a better version of themselves and really get in touch with the relationship that God intends for them to have, not only with God, but also really with their father, with their children, with their spouse, and really have a better understanding of what I created to be.

Speaker 2: 5:56

to check you, yeah, if I could if I could add one little thing about it, Kevin, like our heart is to actually train up men to be the warriors and kings that they're needed to be.

Speaker 2: 6:06

You know, fathers, business leaders, pastors, whatever, whatever the realm is.

Speaker 2: 6:11

And the way that we start that process is not actually by adding more tips and techniques.

Speaker 2: 6:18

What we actually do is we invite that guy away from the front line all the way to the back and we start to care for him at a heart level.

Speaker 2: 6:24

First, we start to dig in to some of the pain, some of the wounding that he's incurred over the course of his life and to really re-identify and uncover the story that he's been a part of. And as he starts to engage in this father-son journey of healing and wholeheartedness wholeheartedness is a big word for us that man invariably starts to move back to the line of fighting because he's like okay, every one of the guys that I know needs to experience this, and this experience isn't just an event thing, but it's a life transformation experience. It's actually a lot about what your book is about. It's not just about more knowledge, it's about implementing things that changes from the inside out, and so we take guys all the way to the back of the line and we care for them at a heart level first. And it's a journey. It's a long journey, but it's what I'm going to spend my life doing.

Speaker 1: 7:17

Yeah, your passion for what you do is very obvious and it's also very needed. So one of the reasons I wanted to have you on the podcast is I have a lot of respect for you. I respect your opinion, wanted your input. You're kind enough to take a read of my book before it hit the streets and by the time this podcast launches, my book will be available. But I wanted your perspective, just as someone who works with men and would love to hear what were some of the things that really spoke to you, that resonated to you regarding your read through my book.

Speaker 2: 7:56

Yeah, yeah. Well, I'm excited to talk about it. You know, when I had the opportunity, I felt like I was kind of getting a little secret insight when you said, hey, take a look at this. And once I started reading it I was like, ooh, I like this. Yeah, partly because it was challenging me. So I'm ready to dig in with you if that's what you want to do.

Speaker 1: 8:14

Yeah, awesome. What is something in the book that really stuck up to you? I know you kind of talked about upstream, the concept of upstream and also the concept of getting into new circles. Do you want to expand on that?

Speaker 2: 8:28

Yeah, I absolutely do. So. You know, I love the picture of upstream and it's always fascinating. But when you're reading something, if you can tie into a previous experience in life, I feel like it hits home. And as a kid and you remember this from the time that you lived in Ohio I don't know if you ever went tubing down the Mohican River. And when I was a kid we would get these old inner tubes and you would just lazily float down the river and it was fun. But the current took you wherever it wanted to go.

Speaker 2: 9:01

And the idea in this book is that that is not the life that you're going to want to get if all you ever do is float down river. And I remember as a kid there was a couple of times I wanted to get back up river to go see something else and it was almost impossible to paddle upstream, like it took everything you had. And so the idea of swimming upstream it first started to hit me because, kevin, it's a good idea. Yeah, we should swim upstream. It's a very different idea when you try to put that in motion, because you can give it everything you got and you're going to make headway for a while. But if you don't have the commitment to keep going, even when you get tired, it's not going to be long before you're going to quit and you're just going to be right back downstream again.

Speaker 2: 9:49

And so I started to look at different facets of my own life and saying where am I coasting or floating downstream and where am I really working upstream?

Speaker 2: 9:59

And so that overall concept and I can dig into that a little bit more I found it very challenging because I feel like the culture in the life that we live in, at least here in America, it's very much a downstream mentality Get the ease, get the leisure, take what you can and if you have to work a little bit, okay.

Speaker 2: 10:19

But it's not an upstream mindset. And as you and I both get older, right, everything we do is an upstream battle and it's a swim and you've got to set out in advance for the purpose of your mind. So that was one thing that grabbed me and I don't know there might be more questions on that and I can expand on that more specifics. But then the other thing that really grabbed me was about the circle and I'll dig into that perhaps a little bit more in the conversation, but about changing or evaluating the circle of people that you spend the most time with, and there was some unique dynamics in that that really challenged me and it opened up some areas in my own life where I was stuck and I don't think that I knew that I was stuck, quite frankly. So those are two of the main areas right now.

Speaker 1: 11:13

That's great and I know in your ministry work you deal with a lot of men. I mean there's a lot of tears that get shed and there's a lot of hurt that gets you know, you know scabs that get you know removed and pulled off and wounds that get revisited. How much of the hurt that the average you know, american male at least that you deal with, how much of that you feel like is actually caused by men who have a pattern of really just going downstream with their life.

Speaker 2: 11:44

So what I think is the initial hurt, kevin, might not be a floating downstream, but the initial hurt can happen in any different ways. It can be from a father, it can be from a guy not there, it can be anything and some a lot of times it's not our fault. But the way that we react to that and guard or protect that wound because it hurts so bad, we can often get in a passive mindset. So some guys might get more violent. But a lot of guys are like you know what, I'm just not going to try anymore, I'm just going to go with the flow. I reached out once it burned me, they burned me, they screwed me. I can't trust people. So you know what, I'm just going to live life.

Speaker 2: 12:25

So I think the reaction to the going downstream, the reaction to a passive mindset, I think is often endemic after the initial wound or two hits and then it just leads to further confirmation that this is just the way that it is and we look for a little relief along the way. We look for more comfort along the way rather than trying to restore or to reclaim or to grab a hold of a whole different kind of person that we want to become or life that we want to have. So I think in our culture of wealth, as an example, it's easy just to coach or to coast. It's because it's what we learn to do when we got hurt. I'm just not going to go back there and press into it. I'm going to go down this way and every time this thing or this, a similar wound comes up, it further the lie. I think, quite frankly, it further underscores this belief that I shouldn't try and I need to be ultra insulated anyway and just stay in my own bubble and keep people out. Does that make sense a little bit?

Speaker 1: 13:34

It does Absolutely. Do you have any internal pushback to anything that you read in the book? Like I've shared before that one of the most impactful books that I've read was Relentless by John Bevere, and I pushed back on almost everything in that book the first time I read it. It was the second time that I went through, where things really started to make sense. So yeah, did you experience anything like that?

Speaker 2: 13:54

Yeah, I actually did, and it was difficult because I don't know if I would call it pushback, but it was definitely a question. It had this idea. It came down to the idea of evaluating your main circle of friends, if you will, or the people that you spend the most time with, and you are the sum total of, I think, the average of the five people that you spend the most time with. And when I started to look at that, my initial pushback was because, you know, kevin, you know this. I don't know if our listeners know this, but I'm a huge fan of Jesus, I'm a follower of Christ. It's changed my life, and when I look at Christ, the knuckleheads that he surrounded himself with weren't necessarily promoting him right. And so it's like, well, if Jesus didn't surround himself with those upper echelon guys, well then, what does that say about me? And so I was starting to view that, but it's like wait a minute, is this what I saw in Jesus? But what I did is when I took a half a step back and evaluated it. I think, kevin, it was more of an excuse than a genuine pushback, and what I realized was that I was viewing a all or nothing. So here's what I mean by that. If there's a circle of friends that I have that are really good in, let's say, spiritual things, and they're guys that I grow with, but they're not good in pushing me forward in finances, so is the book saying that I have to deep six all of those relationships and find all new friends? My first read, immature wise, was like, yeah, that's, you got to deep six one and get the other.

Speaker 2: 15:37

And as I processed it with the Lord, I realized that I think I was looking at it a little bit wrong. If those guys are challenging me over here, that's fine, but if I'm not being in challenge in another way, maybe it's health. Like the guys that I was hanging around with they're not challenging me in health, right in, in exercising my body, or the other guys that I was hanging around with. They kind of have a ministry mindset and it's just like, yeah, money is money, god will provide, but it's a lot of a poverty thinking. And so what I started to realize my first pushback is you're saying I got to get rid of all my friends.

Speaker 2: 16:12

But once I grew and I was realizing, no, that's not necessarily there, but I may need to increase my scope and find another group that is hungry to grow in the areas that I know that I'm weak in, and if I'm the strongest guy in the group, my group's not strong enough. So I started to evaluate, as an example, kevin, which guys Think differently about finances in a way that's better than I think about them in, and so I, I I started to take a look at that and I started to actually write a list of Names down of guys that I would want to spend more time because of how they view something like finances or Material resources. And so the initial pushback is I thought it was an all or nothing, but what I realized is, no, I probably just need to add a new circle of friends and dig into that those guys a little bit more and have very blunt Conversations with them, you know with it. So I would say that might be one example.

Speaker 1: 17:16

No, it's really good because the the reality is that there's gonna be very few people that are, you know, if we think of you know, skill set or competency on a scale of one to ten, there's gonna be very few people that are a ten in every domain of life, correct, right, and if you can get around those people, obviously you want to.

Speaker 1: 17:39

Absolutely you may find some people who are, you know, they're great husbands or great fathers. Maybe they're great financially, but their physical health is not in a good good spot. Or you might have someone who's in great shape physically, but their finances are a wreck, and so the the key is understanding how, how, how am I, how was this person helping me become a better person? But make sure that you keep them in the correct domain and not write it spill over into another domain. I think is the point of that.

Speaker 2: 18:11

Well, you're exactly right. And again, if we come back to the example of finances, you know for a little bit. You know there's a few different mindsets on finances. One is don't take a risk, get out of debt. Night. Do believe we should be out of debt. But at the same side, there's a lot of people that I've grown up with that are risk averse and it's like don't, don't do anything like that.

Speaker 2: 18:33

Well, I need to get around other people who are strategic in the way that they view finances and they're willing to do hard work, but they think about it in a way that is what I would consider with a wealth mindset versus a poverty mindset. So I'll give you an example. So I've got a piece of land and I'm trying to decide whether I should sell, kevin, this piece of land and go buy another rental unit. So I've got four and I've got a rental unit that I could buy right now. You don't even know the story, which is kind of funny. Well, I could buy this rental unit for cash. If I sell a Piece of vacant land that I have. Well, what's, what's the better play man? I don't know.

Speaker 2: 19:19

And I was starting to seek advice, and so I got advice from one circle and and then I kind of got advice from a real estate wealth circle people that understand money and the one guy left me is like, no, you don't sell your property. And he goes what's the interest rate that you would get? And I think it was 8%. And he goes and you're still making money. It's paying for yourself and there's a positive IRI on this rental and I was like, okay, and he goes.

Speaker 2: 19:41

Then you borrow the money all day long and he goes do not decrease your assets when the other one's going to pay for itself. Well, significantly. They're like, no, keep your asset. And I was like, yep, that was the thinking that I needed, right, and it was before. It was like, no, no, sell it. Debt is always a bad thing, and I'm not trying to make the argument whether debt is good or bad. The point is I Got in my circle a guy who is way ahead of me in regards to building Value, or building wealth in regards to real estate, and they helped me think beyond what I could think, and that was about increasing the circle, if that makes sense.

Speaker 1: 20:28

Yeah, that's really good. That's really good yeah.

Speaker 3: 20:31

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Speaker 1: 20:47

Is there any action steps you have taken since you read the book to put some new plans in motion?

Speaker 2: 20:53

Yeah, yeah. So I was thinking about this, kevin, a little bit. And it's one thing to think about the circle of friends that you need to increase. It's another thing to actually get in their way, and I have since had multiple meetings. I bought guys lunch and I'm like I want to hang out with you. I Said, in your life, there are ways that I help you, and if they're primarily spiritually and coaching and things of that nature, but, unlike, there's some things in your life that I need you to help me with, and they're like what? And so I was talking to them about building wealth. It's not about becoming rich, but about building true wealth, looking at assets and things of that nature.

Speaker 2: 21:35

And so we are now formulating a group of guys that have a heart for business, that have a heart to generate revenue, so that way we can be significant givers.

Speaker 2: 21:46

And it's crazy because the way that they think half freaks me out, and I'm a risk taker, bud, like I'll take risks, but they are so far ahead that it's drawing me out of my comfort zone. So the action step that I took is I actually got in their way. I bought them lunch, I shared the idea and they're like yep, let's start meeting, let's start talking, and invariably I'll get to bring what I bring to the table, which maybe is a spiritual component or a coaching component or whatever it is. But then they're gonna bring their component, and so we're gonna start grabbing probably an early breakfast here mid-November, and trying to do that every other week, if not once a month, and trying to figure out how do we increase our holdings whatever those holdings are and how do we spur each other on. So I didn't wait. I got people's way and they're like I need this, I wanna be part of this too.

Speaker 2: 22:42

I'm like good because when a book comes out, the first thing we're gonna do is we're reading this book as a group. So I need your book out, like now.

Speaker 1: 22:50

Awesome. We're working on it. Just a couple more days. November 7th it will be available. I'm curious. I know that for a lot of people can be intimidating to reach out to someone. The fear of rejection is realistic for men and women. Do you get pushback when you reach out to someone to say, hey, let's get together? Have you had any pushback, or do you find that most men are like, other than the difficulty of actually scheduling it? Do you find that men are willing to invest their time in you?

Speaker 2: 23:16

Yeah, I actually do and find it relatively easy, and I think one of the main reasons why, kevin, is because I've spent my life just investing in guys, and so what I'm not doing is reaching out cold turkey to guys that I don't have a basis with, where I'm looking at them from the outside and looking at what I would perceive as success. I'm actually staying still within the realm of whom I've invested in already, so I have some relational equity. But then I've also looked at the decisions that they make in regards to business. I look at various leadership positions that they hold. I watch the way that they spend money and just the way that they interact with it, and so I've evaluated on that.

Speaker 2: 24:04

And when I approach them, it's not a bait and switch kind of approach, I'm just blunt and, kevin, you kind of know this. I'm like hey, and one guy's name is Andy and I just said, andy, I wanna buy you lunch, and he's like what's up? I'm like, well, we got a lot of stuff to talk with, but I need your help. I've been helping you for a while. I need your help now and I wanna kind of tell you a story about what I've been reading and where I'm at and where I think I'm stuck, and I need a group of guys Like that's kind of like my lead in, and every time they're like sure, I'll get a lunch with you and then I lay it out and that's what it is. So that's just kind of my approach. Is it the best approach? I don't know, but it's mine and so no, I've not had perfect pushback. Matter of fact, I've had more interest and a lot of the guys are like okay, I'm really interested.

Speaker 2: 24:56

One guy, kevin, get this. He's like so you're talking wealth, yeah, and he sells yachts, like you can sell cars, but he sells yachts, and not little yachts, big yachts. And he's like so do you know anybody that is selling gold? And I said gold. They're like yeah, I have a client that's looking to buy hundreds of millions of dollars of gold and, kevin, I'm like and I'm just kind of going. I don't even know how to process that.

Speaker 2: 25:29

And when I took a step back after that conversation, I started to laugh and I'm like God, that's what you would do. I'm stretching out and you're giving me guys that are thinking so far beyond where I'm at. That's the point. They're so far upstream from where I'm at. But now I have a target. Not that I want to be selling gold or buying gold to that degree, but I love the way that they're thinking, and so none of that conversation would have come out had I not got in their way explain what was going on. Reference the book that I read and was challenged in. And now I'm looking and saying, okay, who's selling gold bullion from a mine? And that has actually funny enough. Kevin opened up other crazy conversations with people that I've now met that are gold mine owners in South Africa, so who knows where that's going to go. But that's kind of a fun sidebar as an example.

Speaker 1: 26:27

That's so good, all right. So you talk about being driven to help men. Why might this book be important for men in particular?

Speaker 2: 26:36

Yeah. So, kevin, I feel like, as I've gotten to know and I spent a lot of time with men I feel like men have settled into a certain lifestyle. I think our culture promotes comfort and ease, and I think we live in the wealthiest time in the history of the world, and I think that men are hurting more, perhaps, than they've ever hurt before, through breakdown of families, amongst many other things. And the reason why I think that this is appropriate, this book right now, is because it forces a man to take a look at where he's at and evaluate is this the life that he wants, and is he becoming the man that he really wants to become? And so, for me, the book is an eye-opener. It's a great litmus test, like to take a look down Okay, where am I at? Am I okay? And if I'm not, then what am I gonna do about it?

Speaker 2: 27:44

And so I think there's a lot of guys that aren't sure what they think about who God is as an example. They've been burned by religion. I think this could be a great inroad to even start to open up those conversations as well, to evaluate who am I today, where am I at today, versus who I wanna be tomorrow and what's it actually gonna take to get there? And that's probably the last thing that I would say in regards to this is I feel like our culture has promoted the get rich quick schemes, or here's the five steps that you need to the life you've always wanted. The truth is, kevin, it's hard work, it's an arduous journey, and I feel like this book lays out very specific areas that need to be addressed in a man's life, because I focus on men and I don't know that he should tackle them all at once, but you should absolutely hit them one at a time and keep steady plowing and keep growing.

Speaker 2: 28:41

So I think it's crucial today, especially with, especially with young men. Today, I think, young men in their 20s, they don't really know the man that they want to become, and my heart is could you imagine if we could get 18 year olds to 28 year olds to start to dig in these concepts now? How could they build themselves to be leveraged, in my view, for the kingdom of God, just 10 or 15 short years down the road? So for me, it's the timing of it is also really powerful, because I think we have a lot of hungry young people that are saying does anybody know the way? Does anybody have something different? So?

Speaker 1: 29:25

Yeah, we definitely live in a time in history where masculinity has been villainized and, for you know, for some good reasons, because there's been, you know, definitely abusive masculinity. You know, toxic masculinity is a buzzword these days, but the reality is masculinity as defined by God isn't toxic. It's, you know, toxic masculinity really should be an oxymoron, absolutely, and we just helping men to take more of that Leadership role and be intentional about going upstream, I think will really help, just kind of as we shift towards that topic. How do you feel like this read is timely just with regards to where we're at With so many negative cultural trends? How do you see this benefiting Men who might want to go the other direction?

Speaker 2: 30:20

Yeah, so the the timing of this is key because, heaven, what I'm seeing right now is that there is a laziness that is creeping in our culture because of generational riches, not wealth, and I think that, as we move, our government unfortunately moves toward more of a socialistic nature, that there's this mindset, there's this expectation that certain things should be given.

Speaker 2: 30:53

Mm-hmm and when we actually look at what God is entrusted to us. I think God gives us the raw goods, but it's up up to us To put the sweat, the blood, the tears, the energy in to make it happen. And what I like about this is that this confronts a selfish mindset, a laziness mindset. This also confronts a an expectation mindset. I expect you to give this to me, I expect you to do this for me, and it it's almost a litmus test of black white, because you can't just float midstream. You are either actively moving upstream or you are floating downstream. And so I think it's timely, because it's going to separate out, quite frankly, a lot of Of who's going to become who, and I'm not trying to suggest that everybody needs to become a millionaire, but at the end of the day, I think God has a very specific, an Unbelievable plan for every individual.

Speaker 2: 31:59

The question is are you going to work with God to dig and to discover it and to fight to find it? And so I think what this does is it opens up a lot of subjects, from parenting, you know, to marriage, to how you handle finances, to who you want to become. There's multiple different things, and the timing is great, because right now, a lot of the culture is looking for ease, looking or for the easy button, and this starts to show that there isn't an easy button here. There's a decision button. The question is are you willing to do the work? Yeah, and so I think it's timely. The other thing, and last thing, I love about it, kevin there's a lot of books that I've read that the principles are really good, but they're kind of heady, like I mean. It's deep stuff.

Speaker 2: 32:48

Mm-hmm and I look at this as not that this isn't deep, but there is so practical that you could bring in 18 year olds into this and 38 year olds and 58 year olds all, all along the spectrum and have an unbelievable conversation, because each man is going to be at a different phase in his life. So the subject matter in the book Can encourage, can challenge and to guide a guy regardless of his age In it. So I think it's timely for those reasons awesome as we wind things down here.

Speaker 1: 33:25

You're a father, you're an intentional father and you kind of talked about entitlement. What are some things that you and your wife Laura do To combat that entitlement mentality that is so prevalent in Our culture today, in as you raise your children?

Speaker 2: 33:42

Yeah, absolutely so. So I have four kids In. My oldest is 14 currently and my youngest is six, and so you know, number one they have jobs to do around the house, so they, they learn the value of work. My 14 year old, um, obviously I have property now, and so I've taught him how to mow grass, and so he gets paid for it. But you got to go mow, and at the same time, he doesn't make $12 an hour. When he mows grass, he makes four bucks an hour, and it's not about the amount of money he makes, it's about the work that he does, um, and so we combat, you know, by actually giving jobs and chores to do. The other thing is that we view our kids education as their job, and so there's actually a board that they list, all right, what's coming up this week, you know what assignments are due.

Speaker 2: 34:34

And then the big thing is, kevin, is consequences. If you fail or you make a mistake. Those things are going to happen, right, but what we don't do is we just let it slide, and so we don't do is Ah, it's no big deal, there's consequences. Now, again, if it's a genuine mistake, there can be grace, but there's a cause and effect, you know, with it. Another thing that is very important Is to teach honor and respect, and so that's a huge thing in our family is honor and respect? Um, and what we're seeing in the culture today, kevin Is there. There's a huge lack of honor and respect in young people, and so our yeses yes, our no is no. When our kids were young, they learned really Real early that if dad says no and you go around dad to get to mom and she says yes, it doesn't matter what she says, you're in trouble Because you just put mom against dad or the vice versa, if mon says no and dad says yes. So what we've done is we've created that family unit.

Speaker 2: 35:38

You know, in that family structure, and I would say you know a plan that I'm looking forward to implement, kevin, and it's not yet coming, but I'm building it. So my wife and I own a few apartments, and Originally the reason why we bought them was to just be part of our retirement, but I was thinking too small. And Now what my plan is is, once my child Turns 15, they're going to be entrusted with a rental unit. They're gonna have to manage it, they're gonna have to collect payment, they're gonna have to pay bills, but whatever profit is left over, it's theirs. They don't own it, but they have to steward it, and if they're well, then they're gonna get to manage more, and that's gonna be one of the ways that they're gonna start to learn to pay for college.

Speaker 2: 36:27

Because I want them or our vision is we want them to have a heart ownership Into the businesses that we have and the ministry you know that we have. So those are some of the things that we're doing and we still do with our six year old. I mean, you've got jobs to do and you do those jobs and it's fun, you know when it so. My wife, though, won't have any part of collecting the chicken eggs. She just she has a thing about birds. It's kind of funny. She's like I'm not going out for the chickens.

Speaker 1: 36:56

It's fair. It's fair. There's some things, yeah, my wife doesn't do as well, so awesome and Well. Hey, it's been great chat with you. Once again, I really appreciate your input and enjoyed kind of just the feedback you gave me in the book and having conversations which really are the types of conversations we have on a monthly basis. As we wrap up, do you want to just share about how people can get more info about Reclaim and who might want to reach out to you guys?

Speaker 2: 37:24

Yeah, absolutely, I appreciate that, Kevin. So if you want to learn more about reclaim, go to our website, which is wwwreclaim Ministriesorg so there's a double M in the middle reclaim Ministriesorg. You can learn a lot about us. There's a contact us button there. We do have a reclaim ministries Facebook page, or you could even email me at John J O N at reclaim ministriesorg, and I'd love to pick up a dialogue With you. But again, our whole goal is to fight for the hearts of men and so, whether the guy knows Christ or doesn't, whether the guy Is just kind of struggling with what am I supposed to be doing with my life? I'm stuck. That's what we do and those are the kind of guys. So check it out, reach out to us and I would love to pick up the dialogue. But it's been a joy to be on the program Buddy and and to talk about the book, so I'm I'm eager because I need to buy a case of them and get them on my shelf.

Speaker 1: 38:23

Awesome. Well, I appreciate that. I'm excited to get them in your hands and again, thanks for joining me. I appreciate your friendship and I know that our listeners Got a ton of value from this, and I look forward to keeping the conversation going buddy.

Speaker 2: 38:37

Absolutely, absolutely, kevin. Talk to you again, brother.

Speaker 1: 38:39

All right, have a great day.

Speaker 2: 38:41

I see you.

Speaker 1: 38:42

Thanks for listening to the uncommon freedom show. We believe freedom isn't man's invention. It was created by God. If you are enjoying the show, please give us a five-star review on the platform we're listening to us on, then subscribe and share with friends and family that you think will enjoy the show. You can connect with us at back and kevcom for more resources to learn biblical principles, essential disciplines and the winning habits that help, once average people lead the life they want instead of accepting the life they were given.