Running with Lions: Joe Hurst's Entrepreneurial Journey and Cultivating Excellence

Speaker 1: 0:05

Hey friends, welcome to the Uncommon Freedom Show. I'm Kevin.

Speaker 2: 0:08

And I'm Becca, and we're your hosts, here to help you reach your potential and maximize your impact in every area that matters. Let's get started.

Speaker 1: 0:18

Alright, friends, welcome back. Today we have a fantastic interview with my dear friend, joe Hearst. Joe, how you doing today, bud?

Speaker 2: 0:28

Fantastic. Looking forward to it, Kevin.

Speaker 1: 0:29

Oh man, I'm so excited. So Joe, at a professional level, is the co-founder of Verute, a software compliance management system for logistics. That's a mouthful. Verute is used by over 5,000 companies and is the fastest growing TSA, ctpat and vendor management software in the logistics market. Under Joe's leadership, verute has completely transformed the way freight forwarders and importers exchange their data, store documents and request compliance information. Joe's most important job is a husband, father of three girls. He enjoys skiing, riding dirt bikes and all kinds of sports. I'm surprised I didn't see poker on there. What's up with that?

Speaker 2: 1:09

You know that's going to come up during the conversation.

Speaker 1: 1:11

Okay, very good, and, of course, golf. So yeah, we've got a lot of history that's developed over the last six years. But, joe, welcome to the show. So why don't you tell everyone how you and I connected? It's a pretty crazy story.

Speaker 2: 1:26

Yeah, so it goes back a few years. So I had maybe I'll just start with my childhood.

Speaker 1: 1:30

There we go. Let's go all the way back. Let's pick off all the scabs, that's right.

Speaker 2: 1:35

Yeah, we'll go through all that trauma, right, but no, it's been. First of all, it's been great reconnecting with you after all these years. How it started was a pretty interesting path, and I think I have a very unique childhood, like you, where I think up until five years of age, everything or maybe, maybe is a little bit older than that was pretty normal. I mean late 70s right, we had our big wheels. Oh yeah, early 80s, 18, we had the chips right?

Speaker 2: 2:06

Yes, you mentioned that that was the best time, in my opinion, to grow up. Compared to what, it's hard to compare, you know, to what the kids go through now. I know they have the stranger things and they have the internet, but growing up in America in late 70s, early 80s with Rocky and Star Wars was amazing and I wish my kids could have experienced that.

Speaker 2: 2:27

But, so I went to actually a Christian school for the first couple years of my life and you know it's hard to say because I was young, but apparently I was a little rambunctious and got into a little bit of trouble with the boys. You know we would wrestle and fight a lot and then I got pretty moody because I didn't like some of my teachers. I thought they were tyrants. You know, in the small Christian school if you don't like perfectly do everything, they get upset at you. So that was kind of my, my early childhood, great childhood. But what happened was around the year of eight or nine, I think my, my mom was like I don't know about this kid, so she pulled me out of school, believe it or not and started to homeschool me.

Speaker 2: 3:09

And the interesting thing about that is I was actually going to school about a half a day and then in the middle of the day she would pull me out and go into the main area of the school and sort of teach me off to the side, you know, and so all the kids would kind of come down the hall and they would see me at this little table working with my mom, which is super weird, maybe embarrassing to some degree, and and then the next year she, she pulled me out of school completely. You're probably familiar with that time and in the American school system history nobody ever heard of this.

Speaker 1: 3:46

It was brand new, it was radical, it was a fringe right wing movement, exactly that's how I would describe it.

Speaker 2: 3:53

And so we literally had to go in our town. We had to go to the superintendent of our town and say, hey, we're doing this new, super weird thing. Can we even do it? We had to go get all this permission, and by we I mean my parents, I had nothing to do with this and but I was part of it.

Speaker 2: 4:10

Right, I had to go talk to the superintendent. They had to make sure that you know nothing weird was going on, and so from there, luckily, I think at that point in time, this was gaining a little bit more steam, right and a few other families, including yours the Tinter family right the.

Speaker 1: 4:27

Tinter family was in this little pocket of right wing slash Christian conservative homeschool movement, and so, before long I think I met you, however fleeting at a gym class, I believe my dad was doing the Friday gym class and I'm wondering if he was on sabbatical or something, because I'm trying to remember how in the world he had time to come. Yeah, he must have been on his first sabbatical, do you remember? I remember my parents instructing us when we were first homeschooled that if someone came to the door we had to hunker down, stay below the windows, go down to the basement type of thing, like it was. It was. It was such a radical thing that was like we didn't leave the house during the day because if people saw kids and out of school they would report us. I mean, we're talking early 80s, but just the thought that there was that type of government control back then is a little alarming, in all honesty.

Speaker 2: 5:24

It was and I remember doing that. I mean it was like you know, you think today you know you're going to go out to Target and pick up some milk or whatever. We we couldn't do that. Yeah, to do that after hours or in the confines of a very specific group of people, right?

Speaker 1: 5:39

Or it was a school holiday, so the other kids were off. So now I felt like I had my freedom. The crazy thing is I talked to these especially public school kids. They're in high school.

Speaker 2: 5:48

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 5:49

They go to school half day Like I don't know how they're getting their education. Well, I guess they're not for the most part, but the lack of time that you're spending in school Now, granted in homeschooling, it's so efficient. You can get a full day's worth of work done before lunchtime If you're if you're buckled, you know, buckled down and doing it. But yeah, it's very interesting.

Speaker 2: 6:08

It was bizarre, and I do remember that I was like, hey, okay, guys, you know the mailman's at door, what Right, you know, don't, don't, don't show your face. And luckily though, those days were fairly short lived, where you know, I think probably by the late 80s it wasn't so bad right, and so I think more and more people started doing it.

Speaker 2: 6:29

Of course, today I look at it and it's nearly completely mainstream, even though it still is sort of considered fringe compared to what we went through. It's nearly mainstream, and in the meantime, they've brought together all these groups and consortiums and all this where you can be part of it and actually be part of a community. So it's a good thing.

Speaker 1: 6:49

Did you have any of the conversations or did your parents have any of the conversations that I remember overhearing as a kid? And you're kind of like looking back at him, like who are these idiot adults talking like this when I'm there overhearing the conversation? But they're like your kids can be so weird, like how are they gonna be socially adjusted? And blah, blah, blah. And obviously you know you come from a large family. Were all of your siblings homeschooled at one point.

Speaker 2: 7:13

I think so yeah.

Speaker 1: 7:14

Okay, I've got three younger brothers, all of us homeschooled. I mean, we're all very successful in our own right, not a single government worker, not that there's anything wrong with it. I used to be, but for the most part entrepreneurial. You know self employed business owners with you know substantial networks that would put us above the average American. And it's funny when people find out that we were homeschooled they're like you are homeschooled, like there's such a stigma on it. But I can tell you, you know you're incredibly. I mean your social skills are at the top and we're going to touch on your sales book in a second. Like you can't be awkward and be a good salesperson. My brother Mike, my brother Dave, especially those two are just unbelievable at their craft. And you know it's just, it's really fun. And I know my parents relished the fact that all of us have broken all the you know 1980s stereotypes about homeschooling, and you have as well.

Speaker 2: 8:09

So well, yeah, and your brothers are incredible. I'm lucky to know them and we'll talk about how I got right back in your life. Yeah, one of your brothers in a minute here. But, um, one of the things that homeschooling forced me to do was sort of implicitly pursue excellence, because that whole outgoing or friendly attitude had to be developed from the ground up. I didn't have anybody to develop it with, except for my two younger sisters, who were really kind of my peers at the time, but for the most part I had to learn how to be social.

Speaker 2: 8:44

So for me it was not just like, oh, you go to school every day, you're talking to these kids, it's normal. It's like I had to think about, like, oh, actually I need to go up to somebody, introduce myself, talk to them. It was almost like this process or this recipe that I had to learn, and I think that's what's allowed me to, in a weird sort of way, be a little bit more successful in some of these areas, because I'm like it's not just you get out of bed and do it. There's a way to do things and you have to think about things. And the more you think about things and the more you're personally responsible in those activities, the better you're going to be. I don't know if my parents were looking for that exact trajectory, but that's what I experienced.

Speaker 1: 9:29

Yeah, so we met. I think I was in fifth or sixth grade, you were a year ahead of me.

Speaker 2: 9:35

Right, you graduated high school in 1994. 92, actually, oh, 90. Wow, you're a couple years ahead of me.

Speaker 1: 9:40

You're just that much smarter than me. That's what it is, but I think you're only a year older than me. I think so, yeah.

Speaker 2: 9:45

Okay.

Speaker 1: 9:46

I'm 46. You're 48.

Speaker 2: 9:47

So I actually am.

Speaker 1: 9:49

Okay, two years ahead of me. So my dad was leading this Friday gym class for a handful of homeschooled families and that's how we met. But outside of that one year experience, our friendship didn't continue.

Speaker 2: 10:03

Yeah, we were one and done until until and this is sort of part of my journey as well that we'll talk about is my wife was having all these health problems when, when we got married, she kind of went downhill really quick and we lived in the Cleveland Ohio area where all my family is born and raised. And we took a trip out to the Phoenix area, sort of on a whim, and this was to attend a business conference that I was a part of, and she was like boy I actually feel a lot better.

Speaker 2: 10:35

Wow, and for the first time, and maybe like seven or eight years, she actually started we jogging. We were walking at the time outside and she's like you know, I think I'm going to go for a little jog and I'm like you wow, what year is this.

Speaker 2: 10:47

This is probably I would say probably about eight years ago, so 2015, ish, yeah. And then I said well, let's, let's try this little formula again. So we went out about I don't know six months later and once again, after going downhill, when we went back to Cleveland and came back out here again, she felt a ton better. And so I was just like and she didn't know it at the time, because all our family and friends and everyone grew up there I mean, if you're a Clevelander, you know what I'm talking about. You love your sports teams. All your friends and family are 20 minutes away.

Speaker 2: 11:19

It's a great place to be part of a family, but she was. Was was so much better out here. So I'm like we got to move, we got to burn the chips, we got to, we got to just put all our chips on red, so to speak, and move out to Phoenix. So we did and we found a spot out here and I was telling a few family members, which happens to include your brother, because during the time we first talked about, and now your brother, I married my sister.

Speaker 2: 11:47

They have kids together and obviously when.

Speaker 1: 11:51

David and Angela kind of connected, like it was completely separate from the fact that we'd ever did that class back in 1985. I have to admit to you.

Speaker 2: 12:00

I didn't and barely even remember that class. Yeah, you probably do more than me because your dad taught it. I was probably forced to go.

Speaker 2: 12:08

Right, so I dumped that memory a long time ago, but you know there's little bits and pieces that come back. Yeah, so we saw each other, I think at the wedding, just in passing, probably just shook hands, gave each other a high five. I was like, hey, you know we get to see a. And then David mentioned when we decided we were moving to Phoenix. He's like hey, I think I think my brother lives out there, and so I sent David the address we were considering purchasing and then he got your address and he sent me a like a Google Maps with the two addresses circled. He's like I think there's a mile and a half between you two and I was like you got to be kidding me.

Speaker 2: 12:43

And one of the things I've told you this before that I'm most gracious for in life is that God gave me you when I moved out here as a friend, because it's sort of lonely when you're relocating, especially at that point in time. We didn't have health on our side. In particular my wife didn't have health on her side, and so we saw we kind of had to besides work, you know, besides my professional aspect, we kind of had to tone down our social lives. So to come out here and to be able to call you and you were like hey, I've got this great poker night and I've got activities, golf and other things that you invited me to it.

Speaker 2: 13:19

I'll be kind of come out of my shell that I had to retreat into to take care of my family for years. So that's kind of how we came full circle and I think there's a lot of lessons in that for everybody to hear that every once in a while God will throw you a bone or life will throw you a bone and you got to take a hold of that. So you know me, I'm not bashful. When you have poker night, I'm there. I think I've missed two nights so far.

Speaker 1: 13:42

I think you win the attendance award. The only person to attend more than you is me.

Speaker 2: 13:47

So yeah, I think I've even been there on a night where you've been like, hey, I got to leave early, or something like that. And the reason is because I'm so grateful for that and also, you know, I look at it as sort of a lifeblood for me out here and I've sort of designed my life around it to to a bad maybe, maybe almost to a fault, because my wife will sometimes be like when is poker this month?

Speaker 2: 14:12

We have three things to do and I'm like I don't know I got to, I got to figure that out.

Speaker 1: 14:16

Oh there's, there's a bunch of us who plan the month over poker, so that's awesome.

Speaker 1: 14:20

Yeah, and I remember my brothers were out here for my 40th birthday because I was on the oldest, so the first to turn 40, and they were out here for like a 36 hour stint. Obviously, my brother, your brother-in-law, has five kids, he's got a handful, and so they're out here for a quick visit. But they're like, hey, do you mind if Joe swings by? I'm like, oh yeah, I remember Joe and you know we connected, that you live close by, and then you came out and hang out with us as we were enjoying some cigars and just you know, hanging out for my birthday. And that's when I'm sure I was like, hey, you know we do the poker thing and just the connection. But you know it's been awesome, you've, you know we've. We've developed a heck of a friendship.

Speaker 1: 15:01

And I think a couple of things is, you have to be intentional, like the lessons here is you have to be intentional about not only connecting with people but also, if you're in a spot, like, be the inviter, make people welcome, because Beck and I have with especially the military, have moved around and it is so easy to be an outsider and when people invite you in, you know it might not be the sphere that you end up spending a lot of time in long term, but just to be that to be that inviter is, I think, so important and just being intentional about plugging in. You know it's. We've moved around a lot and I think the loneliness has hit Becca even more than me because I, every time we moved, at least had co workers where a lot of times she was staying at home and it is. It is tough, you have to put in the effort. There's a lot of energy that goes into building new spheres of influence. It's very draining for most people but it's also well worth it.

Speaker 2: 15:59

Yeah, I mentioned this to you a few times as well. For the folks that know you well, listening your podcast regularly, you are the best networker I know and I think you've mentioned that a lot of that is because of your, your past year. You're in the military year, move around as a cop, different areas and things like that, and you just for almost forced to be that guy, but it doesn't come naturally. It's a lot of work. I know how much time and energy it takes when you plan a golf outing or plan poker.

Speaker 2: 16:34

You had to buy three poker table, three poker tables. You had to buy the chairs. You had to kind of set everything up and people just come and enjoy it, like I do. But it's a lot of work.

Speaker 1: 16:44

Yeah, but what I've also learned is that if you want it to happen, you got to make it happen yourself. You know, if you invite the people, they will come, and I think a lot of people are just sitting there waiting for the invitation to the party. And the real answer is create your own party and invite who you want. And that's actually cool thing is, when you're the inviter, you get to control it, and so there's there's some strategies there. So, yeah, that's kind of the long introduction to how we connected. It's pretty cool. You have something else to add on that.

Speaker 2: 17:12

Yeah, I wanted to say that it's funny that you said that, because I just read, of all people, a Bob Dylan quote and he said you know a lot of people look, look and keep looking and go find themselves. He's like it's not about finding yourself, it's about creating yourself. Right? And you said you got to create your own party.

Speaker 2: 17:31

And that's one of the key things you have to do in life is sort of create your own destiny. And if you're sitting there passively waiting for that invite to come, I hate to tell you is a home school kid from the mid 80s, it ain't gonna come. Okay, it's, you've got to go out and grab that tiger by the tail.

Speaker 1: 17:50

Yeah, well, and one of my favorite quotes from John Maxwell is most people accept the life that they were given and few choose to lead the life that they want. And the reality is, you know, both of us could have accepted, you know, the kind of the destiny that looked like we were headed towards, still be in Ohio not that there's anything wrong with it but certainly the abundance and just the lifestyle that we enjoy now. It required intentionality. We had to basically lead ourselves to get to where we're at right now.

Speaker 2: 18:18

We had to do different things. I mean, I had to get my wife healthy. Yeah you know, I wanted my kids to have a grandma someday, so, even though it was a great personal expense- yeah, you have to make those decisions.

Speaker 1: 18:31

Yeah, so awesome. Well, folks, that's a long introduction. Bottom line is you're seeing two formerly homeschooled kids. We wanted to smoke cigars, kind of like Joe Rogan here, but Joe being the better voice of reason and talk me out of it, I should have installed some ventilation had I known this was going to be a podcast studio and had I seen Joan Rogan's podcast and had that idea. I mean, just creates a whole new atmosphere, especially when you're interviewing a good buddy. But bottom line is, you know, we feel very blessed, we beat the odds of being socially awkward formerly homeschooled students.

Speaker 1: 19:02

And you know, the funny thing is the stereotype that exists. I'm like you realize you're assuming that every kid that goes to a private school or a public school is perfect, like most of the mass school shootings I know have happened by kids that went to public schools. So why are we not worried about every kid that goes to a public school is going to become a mass shooter, right? I mean, it's just like you can pick any demographic and you're going to have the far right end of the bell curve, the far left end of the bell curve, and then most people fall into the middle. But it certainly is very interesting how for us that homeschooling demographics stuck out Well, hey. So, joe, long intro, but we're going to talk about one of my favorite topics.

Speaker 1: 19:44

You took a look at my book, which I really appreciate, that's coming out, the Seven Disciplines of Uncommon Freedom, and one of my favorite concepts from that book, or disciplines, is the concept of running with lions. The concept I'll explain like this is that I can't overstate the importance of finding community with people who inspire, challenge or mentor you. I have always believed you find greatness in pockets of community. Show me your friends and I'll show you your future. You need people in your life who will push and support you in the hunt of uncommon freedom, really in the hunt of your greatness, whether it's physically, financially, in your parenting, in your marriage. That's why we run with lions. This discipline will make or break you because it works in both directions.

Speaker 1: 20:30

So you can either run with lions and that concept there is strong people going to help you be better or you can run with jackasses, and that's really comes from Dave Ramsey. He talks about the fact that he's looking for thoroughbreds and the opposite. Or the thoroughbreds in donkeys look very similar but they perform very differently, and I think it's Patrick Lincione, who actually calls him a jackass, and then Jim Rohn says you're the average of the five people you spend the most time with, and so that's what this concept is about. It basically means the same thing. So let's fast forward. Joe, I'm really glad to have this opportunity to interview you and really have more of a conversation. I've learned a ton about business from you, so tell me a little bit more about how I find you sitting across the table for me today. How did you get to where you're at?

Speaker 2: 21:22

Yeah, so we talked about the background, right, and one of those things was I think that was instilled in me as a young kid was performance and responsibility. And then also, again, I had to sort of get out of my situation or sort of optimize my situation. I had to decide to take on that responsibility, and for me it started at a young age where I did have some extra time in the day, and so I started a little tiny small business in woodworking and then I had more time. As you mentioned, you can get most of your school day done when you're homeschooled by about 12 or one, and I used to work at a farm after that, right. So I had this work ethic instilled in me at a very young age and it made me very entrepreneurial, right.

Speaker 2: 22:10

But I didn't expect myself to be an entrepreneur at all. I loved engineering and computers, right. So I went in and started learning all about that and actually got a co-op at some pretty amazing places, including the Department of Defense and things like that. So I was like, man, I'm on my way right, building computers and systems and you know, being a super nerd, I thought this is going to be me right. I found my spot right in life and but there was just this nagging sort of background drumbeat that you got to kind of get from this spot to another spot, and so I tried my hand at a bunch of different things. At one point I owned a women's fitness center, believe it or not, so I tried.

Speaker 1: 23:02

That Was that a curves, or what was it?

Speaker 2: 23:04

It was it was called ladies work out express.

Speaker 1: 23:06

It was like the curves knockoff yeah.

Speaker 2: 23:08

Okay, and they were based out of Miami. We opened one up in Cleveland. We grew it from like 90 members to over 330 members, believe it or not, yeah, and about a year, but I will tell anybody this that's that's going to start a fitness business. Don't do it unless you really really want to do it and probably break even, and that's if you're killing it. Now there's companies who've kind of beat that model up and find a way to squeeze a profit out of it, but it's a very difficult business.

Speaker 2: 23:36

It did teach me how to sell, though at another level, because when you know a woman comes in that's not happy with herself, right? The first thing she's not necessarily looking to do is work out. It's hard work, as you know being being. You know, in your business and as is one of the premium health coaches in the country, people are not looking forward to working out right away or changing their diet. A big component of what we did, in fact, the first thing we did, was get people to change their diet, which is very difficult.

Speaker 2: 24:06

Long story short, that taught me a lot about how to motivate people, and then, from there, I tried to hand in a few other things and actually was a salesman out in the field for a long time with AMD, intel, bunch of other companies like that. So I was in the center conductor sales world. But it all came to a head when my brother was like hey, listen, I got this idea for a software company. I know you've been honing your craft for a long time, let's go do this. So together we started Verute. Now I got to give him a lot of credit. He co-founded it. He took his 401k, cashed it out at the age of whatever he was 26,. You know, put it into this business, built a software and I built a clientele. Yeah, that's that sort of gives me, I guess, the credibility to the or the cash aid is sitting in front of you today and say, yeah, I know a little bit about what it takes to run with lions and how to be successful in business.

Speaker 1: 24:57

Yeah, and you're not going to do it on your own.

Speaker 2: 24:59

Definitely not.

Speaker 1: 25:00

So most people would call you. You know your day job title is entrepreneur. Can you tell us a little bit about your work life and what that means to you being an entrepreneur?

Speaker 2: 25:10

Yeah. So an entrepreneur is often a thankless job, and what it means is you get up in the morning and you do a lot of the same things, but you also do a lot of different things. And by that I mean, you know, you got to get your next client, you got to get your next receivable, and then you've got to figure out how to put out all the fires and then invent new ways to either market your product or whatever. So if you're an entrepreneur, or if you're not, or an entrepreneur is a partner, such as a wife or husband or friend or whatever, you're going to be sort of like wow, what is this person doing?

Speaker 2: 25:48

all day long they're running around, you know. You know, constantly solving problems, and that's my day job is solving problems, but I love it. I think I would get bored doing something else.

Speaker 1: 26:00

As you go through your day, what's your overarching philosophy on life and business and work?

Speaker 2: 26:07

Well, I think my overarching philosophy is there's a creator. Like you know, one of my hobbies I like hiking. I like, as you mentioned before, riding my dirt bike. So when I go outside and I think a lot of people that live in the city they don't get to experience this you go outside and you see these animals and trees and everything kind of coming together and you're like I have one conclusion there's a creator. Yeah, right, and so sort of this informs your whole sort of life in the sense that, okay, there's a creator. Therefore I'm responsible to serve something bigger than myself or praise something bigger than myself.

Speaker 2: 26:52

So I need to be responsible in my daily life, right To execute at a very high level. So I think that's kind of my worldview or daily way. I sort of pattern myself. As there's a creator, you have a responsibility to serve others and others. Your customers in particular, are better than you or greater than you because you have to serve them and sometimes it's gonna hurt but it's always worth it in the end.

Speaker 1: 27:19

Yeah, that's awesome. So obviously you're kind of the sales face of the business and you recently sent me a copy of a book that you wrote that you told me about and I finally had a chance to review it and it's phenomenal. You wrote that in just the last couple of years, right.

Speaker 2: 27:40

Well, I've had the idea and this is a tip if you're ever thinking about writing a book. I wrote down the chapters over the course of probably 10 years knowing that someday I'd wanna write it down. And then, yeah, I think I just spent a couple hours here and there on the weekends just kind of writing things down over the past two years.

Speaker 1: 27:57

Yeah, I mean, it's a phenomenal book. It's called Selling to the Devil. Folks, you're not gonna be able to find it in bookstores yet, but if I can encourage Joe to make it available right now it's just available more internally to his team, but it is such a good book. As a coach in what I do, I saw tons of application. In fact I'm gonna talk to you about having you come on and do a training for our broader team because I saw so much value in it.

Speaker 1: 28:24

And the title. When I first heard it I was like, oh, this is just Joe pushing back on his Christian upbringing. And then I read the book and I was like, oh, that explains it and it makes a ton of sense. But it's a solid book. And I'll just make a plug in advance because it's a book I told you it's kind of the sales version of the compound effect, which is one of my two books I read every single year. It's six chapters. It's a super easy read. It's a solid book. So way to go. And then kind of turning the tables, I know you had a chance to review my book, which I'm really grateful for, from the standpoint of running with lions. How would you define the lion the way that I depict it in the book.

Speaker 2: 29:06

Yeah, I think and I'm gonna maybe give you my spin on it, since you asked me the question I think lions come in a lot of different sizes. I mean there's big lions, there's small lions, there's fast lions, there's slow lions, there's male lions, there's female lions, and the common thread I'm gonna go back to somebody said before that, I see is every person that you wanna be around with takes personal responsibility and also has goals in life. They don't have to be the most successful person, but they have to pursue excellence. Right, that, to me, is the definition of a lion, because when you have friends and family around you and then your other close friends and family that you depend on, you want them to tell you hey, I think you can improve in this area. Or here's an area you're excellent on.

Speaker 2: 30:07

Like you just said about the book my book maybe you should think about maybe printing a few copies that get into other people's hands. Well, that's encouragement to me. Now I have to go do it right. So there's always this aspect of when you're running with lions that they're going to have certain expectations. That will only help you be better. But as an example, I think of a couple that I know, one of my good buddies. He got in a car accident and it took a lot from him. He was a brilliant engineer, had a brilliant mind, one of the he was actually a national merit scholar, one of the most intelligent people, and it basically helped me get through college, kevin to be honest right.

Speaker 2: 30:51

All that was taken away from him, including his earning power, is a brutal thing to watch, and his wife is an unbelievable prayer warrior. She could complain all day, but she doesn't. She calls me up from time to time and says, hey, I'm praying for your business and I'm praying that you're successful. And all the while I know she is constantly picking up her cross every day and walking with it. Now is she flushed with $5 million in the bank? No, but that's the kind of line you want on your side. So there's all kinds of different lines that come in different shapes and sizes.

Speaker 1: 31:34

A lion is not determined by net worth, that is for sure. Yeah, absolutely. Why would you encourage people to really prioritize surrounding themselves with the lion type of person?

Speaker 2: 31:47

Yeah, I mean, whenever you try to do great things, the darkness comes upon you.

Speaker 1: 31:53

You know this right.

Speaker 2: 31:55

You go through these valleys, these personal valleys sometimes they're public If you do not have people that will throw you a line, people that you can talk to, sometimes even people you need to complain to when you're in that dark valley, it's gonna be hard to make it.

Speaker 1: 32:15

Yeah, that's good, darren, I'm pretty sure it's Darren. Hardy talks about the wisdom of lions, in that they know how to spend their energy and how to conserve it. Obviously, lions tend to prey on large game, and you haven't been on a safari yet, have you?

Speaker 1: 32:34

Not yet, so we went, yeah, three plus years ago. It is an awesome experience. I would encourage anyone at all, if at all possible, go do a safari. We were in Kenya and it is unbelievable to see lions in person. But one thing that Darren Hardy talks about is they don't chase mice, and so for us as humans, there's so many insignificant things that we waste time on, and it's something that lions don't do.

Speaker 1: 33:04

Obviously, they're one of the what do they call it? The big five or the big seven, the animals that everyone wants to see. And the other really interesting thing is when you're on a safari, I mean you've got this open top vehicle and you're looking out the side and the lions could absolutely they could jump on the car and climb into. If the land rover or whatever it is that we're in the Toyota, what is it? Toyota Land Cruiser, that's what it is. These things are like from the 60s or something Unbelievable cars. But you're there and you almost get this adrenaline rush knowing that if this lion wanted to, it could bite my hand off, it could jump into this cab, all kinds of things. But they don't. They know what they're focused on and they just sit there and they're kind of nonchalant. They're not bothered by other things, and I think that that is a good thing. Not responding to everything. Not reacting to everything is such a good lesson from lions for us.

Speaker 2: 34:04

It's critical. I mean when you think about especially what you have to do in sales, right, if you're building a business and a lot of people listen to this or trying to build their business. I always say listen, if you make 200 calls a day, congratulations, you made 200 calls. But if you made 20 calls a day and got more business than the person who made 200 calls, who's a better sales guy? Who's a better networker? Naturally, the guy that knew who to call not how many calls they made right.

Speaker 2: 34:38

That's the critical thing. So lions focus on the absolute necessary items they need to get to the next level and, like in my life personally, a lot of people have watched all these shows like I don't know Game of Thrones. I'm trying to think of these other ones. I don't watch a lot of TV and the TV I watch are things I like to do, like I watch drumming videos.

Speaker 2: 35:03

I watch dirt bike videos, and not that I mean I love TV, I love TV. I wasn't able to watch TV when I was a kid, so I loved it. But I intentionally try not to have it be a big part of my life because I know it's gonna take away from the big game hunting that I'm trying to do.

Speaker 1: 35:23

Yeah, that's awesome. What is your method to build relationships so you can surround yourself with others who want to be great?

Speaker 2: 35:32

Yeah, Well, I think in the context of our conversation, some of it is relying on people like you that are excellent networkers, that are even better than me. So if I see someone like you that is an excellent networker, I'm gonna ask to get in your circle and I'm gonna try to make your circle even better. Right, when guys come to our poker game, as an example, you know I'm always out there saying, hey guys, what's up? Shaking hands, patting backs, you know that sort of thing. I'm trying to make them feel more welcome and then I will try to bring in some of my friends into the group who I think are gonna make that group better. So that's sort of my methodology. I'm not the perfect networker, I'm not the ideal guy, I'm a glue guy and I try to make it better.

Speaker 2: 36:25

So that's just how God made me. So I take it and run with it.

Speaker 1: 36:29

Yeah, and one of the cool things that I love about our, you know, specifically the poker group, is how interconnected all of us, or many of us, have become. I mean, you've got guys from all different walks of life. You know, I think about you go riding with Bill Davis, who you met through me, and then, you know, you brought JP, who brought Dave Erhart, who both of those guys have become really good friends, really close to Dave. I'm having a meeting with him in an hour from now to talk about how he can help us grow our social media following and get more followers on YouTube and Facebook.

Speaker 1: 37:06

And there's a book I don't remember who the author, but he says you already know everyone you need to know, like literally, if you just leverage every, all the relationships that you have.

Speaker 1: 37:17

You know, we're all familiar with the six degrees of separation. The bottom line is you're connected already, through your sphere of influence, to everyone you need to know to be successful. The question is are you providing value to that sphere of influence and are you the type of person who people want to bring back? I think that's a huge, because just because someone gets invited to the poker game doesn't mean they're coming back, right, you know it's an open invite, like people know. Hey, you're welcome to invite anybody, but it doesn't mean you're gonna make the list because if you come and you're you know you're a jerk and you're completely negative or, you know, fallen over drunk, you're not welcome back. I mean, there's plenty of drinks get consumed at poker night not by me, because I'm a better poker player, sober, I'll take advantage of all the drinkers if I can, but if you don't fit you're not gonna get invited back.

Speaker 2: 38:12

You're not adding value. I mean, the key part of any social interaction or network interaction is the ability to add value, and life is not about yourself, kevin, it's about everybody else. I mean, that's the reality of it. Is you feel sometimes like, yeah, this should be my party, but you're not gonna be successful living that?

Speaker 1: 38:34

way, yeah, so obviously you've worked with a lot of different personalities through the years, especially in your leadership role. As far as sales, what would you say to the person who doesn't like the stress of being a super high achiever or having their own company? Can you be a lion in any industry?

Speaker 2: 38:54

Yes, you can. In fact, it's funny, I think my daughter coined the phrase and one of my good friends now repeats it. He's like not everybody can be a world beater, Joe, and by that some people like to just take it easy at times or may not have to always think about oh, you wanna execute on this next thing. You were a policeman, right? Probably wasn't your final calling right, cause you're sitting here and we're sitting here and do this it wasn't.

Speaker 2: 39:26

But do you know, guys, who it is their final calling? Yeah, yeah, and some of them are excellent at it. There's a Cleveland cop that comes to mind and now he's had some issues with media issues or potential issues with being a little bit too hard on people, and he's actually. There's this one story where he went into a basement and a guy pulled a gun on him and he probably shouldn't have shot the guy. But long story short, this guy's literally saved people from the Cuyahoga River. He's an amazing guy and he's spent, I think, 40 years as a cop and is the most decorated cop in Cleveland.

Speaker 2: 40:09

His name is Jim Simone in case you're wondering the name, but I'm not gonna go on record to say I support this guy, cause he has some issues that different people have brought up. But he loved being a cop, he lived for it and he was the best in his mind anyway, the best cop he could be. He wouldn't want to do anything else given the opportunity. So this guy decided to become a lion or an expert in his profession and ended up sort of putting all his chips on the table saying this is what I wanna do. Let's go back to your dad, who was a teacher. I mean, he made a lot of impact on a lot of lives. In fact I've heard him say every once in a while someone will come up to him and be like oh, mr Tenor, you made this big impact on me.

Speaker 2: 40:59

Well, one of the things your dad was able to do was also sort of put away his money in his 401k and do some things and they've got a nice little piece of property and everything now. But he didn't complain right. He didn't get upset at his station in life, he just wanted to do it right, and I think you can be a lion if you pursue excellence in that particular area. What I will say is, if you are a cop or a school teacher, you're gonna need to make some intelligent decisions. For instance, you're gonna need to understand listen you're not gonna live in the biggest house, you're not gonna drive the fastest cars and if you do, you better have a side hustle. You better have a plan.

Speaker 2: 41:49

That goes back to the personal responsibility issue. You're not gonna achieve a certain level of financial success and you have to be okay with it. So my recommendation is if you're gonna go be a teacher, don't get a teaching degree from Harvard where you're a half a million dollars in debt before you get your $50,000 teaching job. Go to the community college, go to the state school, graduate with the least possible debt and say you know what I feel led in life to make an impact on these students. That's what I'm supposed to be here for. That's a lion. Now, if you go and get into debt and you're just living hand to mouth day to day and you're just upset and you're complaining, how are you gonna be effective in anybody's world, let alone your students' world?

Speaker 1: 42:39

Yep, yeah, no, I think you're spot on with that. The reality is kind of. Being a lion has more to do with excellence than income there's everything to do with it.

Speaker 1: 42:49

Yeah, and I remember the transition from being a Marine Corps officer to a police officer I had in the Marine Corps. Every leader is responsible for everything that their Marines do or fail to do. And to the point where, as a second lieutenant or first lieutenant, my shop or my platoon if a Lance Corporal got arrested for being drunk, he's underage on a Friday night. The CEO holds me responsible and I give my Friday night safety brief and it's like really I understand the concept. But why the heck are you holding me responsible for something that some knucklehead Lance Corporal did on his own when I was miles away and that gets really old. So that kind of caused me. I just wanna be on my own on an online, responsible for myself, no one else.

Speaker 1: 43:39

And that's what I had as a police officer and initially what I really enjoyed it. What I loved was the autonomy. It's like I just had to take care of my calls. I could self initiate stuff and really focus on what I liked. And. But then I also realized the downside to that and I would say I was a lion of a cop for at least a period of time. The downside was I had no time freedom and financially I was tapped out Like I was making as much as I could. The only way for me to make more was to work more, and which meant I was spending less time with my family, which is why I finally decided. You know, push came to shove and you know the right set of opportunities came my way. But you're spot on with that.

Speaker 2: 44:16

You were at a crossroads, though you knew you wanted some specific things for your family. You wanted to send your kids to certain schools.

Speaker 2: 44:23

You wanted to have them certain opportunities. You can't lie to yourself and say I want this for them, but yet I'm here. You had to find a way to get to that next level, and if that's what you're searching after, then put a plan together to do that, don't just? You know the old saying about insanity, doing the same thing over and over and over and expecting different results is definitely a key.

Speaker 1: 44:48

Yeah, and the other thing and I think this is a great lesson for everyone is to understand that just because you were once aligned doesn't mean there'll always be a line. You know, and for me, I loved my job for the first five years. The last two years, I hit burnout and I was no longer motivated. I did what I had to do, but my motivation, like I knew I was no longer the cop that I once was and my motivation was gone, and so my encouragement for everyone is, when that happens, take the wake up call, go start looking for some other opportunities so you know whether it's, you know, going from being a cop to a complete career change or something like that. Go find something where you're going to be aligned again, instead of just being complacent.

Speaker 2: 45:34

I totally agree, and a lot of that has to do with leadership. Once the leadership above you doesn't treat you right or you're in a situation that doesn't give you any joy, it takes the desire to be aligned out of you real quick, right, Especially in your situation. The other thing is not this goes back to the entrepreneurial thought process is that being an entrepreneur is hard because you aren't just responsible for yourself. It is a nice gig to be responsible for yourself. Do what you need to do for eight, nine, 10 hours a day, Go watch the Browns on the weekend and have fun and not have to worry about this. That is not my life. People look at sometimes some of the things I have or maybe say, okay, this guy's got this particular thing in life, but they don't understand that my mind's always thinking like what's the next thing? And that's okay, I'm fine with that but, not everybody's okay with that.

Speaker 2: 46:35

You have to make that decision like I'm going to take that next step up, or you have to basically say you know I'm going to do what I do and do the best of my ability.

Speaker 1: 46:45

Yeah, good stuff. So, joe, what are some of the things you've learned over the years that help people become successful in business, or even if it's not their own business? Dave Ramsey talks about the fact that we're all self-employed. Right, basically, even if I'm an employee, I'm self-employed because my production, my performance, determines whether or not I keep my job. So I think having that self-employed mindset, even if you are an employee, is a good thing. But what are some specifics that you have learned to help people be successful in business?

Speaker 2: 47:17

Yeah, actually, I can't agree with you more on your assessment. In fact, I always say to the folks that I'm in charge of, or that report to me, that you own your own business. Just inside of the business that I manage, you have the ability to control your own destiny. So it's not at every company, right, where the quote-unquote boss says that A lot of companies try to sort of tamp their people down. I'm like, hey, if you're willing to grow with us, we're willing to grow with you. So, by the way, I think if you own a business, you need to think that way. That's an important thing to do is to make sure everyone feels like they're owning a little chunk of their own business. Right, and that's the way you have to approach it in everything. That's just life.

Speaker 2: 48:07

If you want to be successful, you have to be responsible for the little piece of land that you own. Yeah, that's great stuff.

Speaker 1: 48:13

So, folks, just as we wrap up, I want to remind you just the importance of running with lions. We talk about this all the time on this podcast and it's something that I have seen impact my life positively in so many ways, and that's just the importance of surrounding yourself with people. Like John Maxwell says, if you're the smartest person in a room, get yourself into a better room. If you're the wealthiest person in the room, get yourself into a different room. If you are the healthiest person in a room, get yourself into a better room. Because it's really easy to get a little bit cocky and complacent when you're healthiest, wealthiest, smartest in a particular room, but then you intentionally put yourself in a different room and you realize, okay, there's lots of room for me to grow. Joe, I know that your company, verrute, is a little bit of a niche, but can you give us for people who would want to work with you and how can they get more info?

Speaker 2: 49:09

Yeah, you could go to our website, verrutecom V-E-R-O-O-Tcom. If you're just morbidly curious about what we do. I would say that you were definitely a niche business to business type of company. We deal with logistics companies primarily, and also importers of good. So if you're in the logistics compliance area, look us up and check us out.

Speaker 2: 49:32

But in addition to that, I do want to say we are very thankful for each one of our customers and it's a massive privilege to serve them. And you can probably see as sort of an overarching discussion about running with lions, where we're fortunate to have some customers that are lions. So when you deal with some of these customers that are just amazing or so aggressive, they kind of pace you as a business person. You're like gosh, this guy is so amazing, he's so awesome. It kind of gives you that same goal or same drive. So I will say one of the best things you can do as a business owner, and that Verrute tries to do, is not only have the lions surrounding us, which are fellow employees, associates and, for me, my friends like you, but we try to get amazing customers and that's what you ultimately ultimately need as a business person to push you to those heights.

Speaker 1: 50:30

That's a good reminder that not every customer is a customer that you want to have. That is for sure.

Speaker 1: 50:37

Right, awesome. Well, hey, thanks everyone for joining us today. Joe, thank you so much for carving some time out of your schedule to hang out. It was awesome. I look forward to doing it again and I'm looking forward to interviewing more amazing guests on the show and diving into the concepts that you will find in my new book that comes out in November the Seven Disciplines of Uncommon Freedom. See you later, friends. Instead of accepting the life they were given,